What was the significance of the Global Pentecostal Summit (3-6 Nov)? City News speaks to the presenters at the Summit for their take on this, starting with organiser Prof Doug Petersen.
It began as a desire in the hearts of Professors Doug Petersen and Byron Klaus, two of a trio—the third person being Prof Murray Dempster—who birthed the gathering of Pentecostal scholars in 1996 in Costa Rica and compiled the presentations from that summit into the influential volume The Globalisation of Pentecostalism: A Religion Made To Travel.
In recent years the two professors began discussing how to organise a second summit to study what the Holy Spirit was now doing in the Majority World (countries and continents with the largest world populations, mostly developing countries). Through a move of God, the relationship that had developed between Prof Doug and Kong Hee, the senior pastor of CHC (a student at Vanguard University where the professor teaches) opened the door for the Summit to be held in Singapore at CHC.
That kickstarted a gathering of top Pentecostal minds across Asia, assembled by Prof Doug, who would present their research and study of the move of the Holy Spirit in these territories and in significant spaces of today, such as the Metaverse.
We spoke to Prof Doug on Sunday 5 Nov, in the middle of the Summit and after his sermon at CHC on Saturday evening.
CITY NEWS: How were the academics selected for the summit? Did you give them a theme?
PROF DOUG: We put together a list of academics, some who were really well-known and substantial, and others whom we wanted to have—new voices. That’s the point of “Voices Loud and Clear”: to use whatever influence we may have had to open the door for new voices, particularly within an Asian context. The truth is, we invited 20 people and 20 people accepted. So it was quite easy. We did have rationale for every person, and we assigned them their topics, so that when we go to put the book together, it’s coherent and has the right sections, and we have new voices that people haven’t heard or read. We have a lot of friends who are substantial scholars, but we didn’t need everybody to be that, we just wanted to open the door for new voices.
What does “Voices Loud and Clear” mean?
It means that we give opportunity for voices to speak for themselves from within their own context, that we’re not speaking for them. The academic world is not necessarily speaking for every individual that—particularly as we look in the Asian context—that they’d be able to speak out and stand on their own. There are already some wonderful scholars [in Asia] so it’s not like we’re the only ones. But the point was for Pentecostals to speak for themselves. There’s all kinds of people who write about us.
Yes, Prof Byron said that sociologists like writing about Pentecostals.
We’re a phenomenon, because in 100 years, we’ve gone from just a handful at Azusa Street to 650 million evangelicals. I know in Latin America, two out of every three evangelicals is Pentecostal. So, it’s a phenomenon, the biggest grassroots movement in history. I would get a lot of invitations [to speak at secular places] in years past. People want to know, how does this grassroots movement happen?
What do you tell them?
Well, there are some sociological reasons, in that often, Pentecostals were poor. It has given them an alternate space, given them a place at the table where they had dignity. But that’s not a good enough answer. That’s a good reason, but it’s not the reason. The reason is the Spirit, it’s inexplicable. It’s when the Spirit starts to move, you just get on the train and ride with it.
After listening to all the presentations and reading the papers, what do you sense the Holy Spirit is doing in these territories?
My own sense in and from the beginning, when we started put this together, is that I believe that the Spirit is going to use City Harvest Church to reach out to Asia to different languages. They have, and the pastor has a huge sphere of influence. There is this hunger for the Bible. I just finished doing an online Bible study, and there were like 6,000 or 7,000 people present weekly. That’s just unbelievable. And there’s this appreciation for the contribution of theological thinking to everyday life, and the School of Theology has the resources and the capacity to make theological education from the best professors available for just a fraction of what it would cost, and they make it accessible to whoever wants to do it.
So what I’m trusting the Spirit is doing, is giving us that opportunity to have this huge expanse. That is unique—I don’t think there is any other entity that has that kind of outreach with a great network of fabulous scholars, but where it’s affordable.
Were there any presentations that jumped out at you?
I probably have a couple of biases (chuckles). I love the paper on violence, not because of the violence, but this idea that in the midst of the worst years of anything that could happen, the church “never lifts”. It just, it just does what it does, doesn’t necessarily have a strategy. It just does what a church is supposed to do. And does it every day, year after year. And consequently, in El Salvador (and the same as in the neighbouring countries, whether it’s Guatemala and Honduras, which are equally as violent) the growth rates like 10% a year and it has been for a couple of decades, which is sensational. Yeah, so I love that paper. I really did.
I enjoyed Wonsuk Ma on his approach to Old Testament leadership. I thought Eva Wong did a wonderful response to that paper. Joel Tejedo has done some outstanding groundwork on megachurches. I liked the session [by Karl and Jennifer Hargestam] on the idea of CQ (cultural intelligence) that everyone can learn. What makes it different from just having cultural training is that it targets a specific group. It’s easy to teach, it’s easy to learn. You’re not looking to be an expert, you’re looking to have enough tools for a 12-year-old to be able to work in that context.
Brian Stiller on Saturday morning sounded like a statesman. Which is what he is. He was the first person that I actually invited. I’ve known him for a long time. Everyone recognises that he’s a statesman and for this kind of event, we needed that.
In your GPS video you say that the Pentecostal movement is not so much the West, but in the Global South now. What then will happen to the West?
I think the West still has a role to play. For the West to be an equal partner, some of it needs a good revival. But there are things that the West can do: theological education for one thing, where can the West put its assets at the service of the grassroots movements—whether human resources or financial. The West has had a lot of experience, some of that is really, really good. But from a Pentecostal perspective, what the West is done, as far as Pentecostal missions go, is not the same as a traditional Protestant approach. It’s not centrally controlled, it’s autonomous. There have have been very many missionaries. That’s very different than the typical route where it is centrally controlled, and things are assigned. Every tub sits on its own bottom, where you just get out there and you can think it up. You do it. It’s the same with national churches, they are their own entity. They’re not this colonised group that is often portrayed. Protestants—of which we’re a part—are really the ones who have had the voice. It’s been said so many times, Pentecostals begin to believe it. And we have our own problems. It’s just not the ones that are traditionally there.
On the first night of the Summit, Pastor Kong asked the scholars to stand in the front and lay hands on the people. A few of the speakers I spoke to were very moved by that. In your view, what happened that night?
You can’t make that happen. It is a move of the Spirit, and it’s what one prays for. But you cannot make it happen. And when it happens, you just thank the Lord. I’ve been in ministry forever—one always prays when you’re going in to something over a long period. We call it that “the power will fall” (laughs). But it’s something the Spirit does. It’s like a person has that sense of the Spirit—that becomes very real. And years down the road, they’ll be reminded: “I know this is real. I feel terrible, I feel at the end of my road right now, whatever the circumstance. But I know I have experienced something supernatural.”
What did it feel like up there, laying hands on people?
I’ve always been very careful. Because people push people over sometimes (laughs). I actually take them by the hand and I barely touch them, and I don’t let them go unless they’re going to pull me over. So, you know it’s the Lord [moving them]. It [people falling by the power of the Holy Spirit] has happened to me a lot in my ministry, but it has nothing to do with me. But I do have that standard; I grew up with it. I just don’t let him [the person being prayed for] go. So, if they’re not gonna fall over, they’re going to keep standing because I’ll hold on to them. (laughs)
In your sermon at CHC on Saturday, you said that Pastor Kong was the third person. What did you mean?
He’s become a co-editor with us on this new book, Voices Loud And Clear. The book is one aspect, but what we want to do is develop a website that will have all this material, like PowerPoint presentations and things. And pastors all over the world, especially in restricted countries, if they have access to it, it’s free. So that’s where we hope the real influence will come by those helps that we can build. Then as time goes by, we’ll have something pretty good for Latin Americans, something good for Asia, something good for Africa.
But Pastor Kong is really a fine scholar already. In fact, when he’s working with me, I’d say, “Pastor Kong, you’re going by me, you’re gonna surpass me!” He wouldn’t agree, but it’s true. He is exceptional. I would consistently get the best work I ever got. I know my colleague Frank Macchia would say he’s never had a student this good. So I know he will be a wonderful addition to Byron and myself. I’ll be 76 next birthday, so we look forward to the future and Pastor Kong will be great. There are some really fine young scholars that are working on graduate programmes who are superb. Hopefully, we’ll see them develop into scholars. You don’t need a lot of scholars, but you need some! And everybody with a good formation, which doesn’t mean they have to have a degree; it means they have to be able to go to church and get a good formation. (laughs)
You focused on your sermon on ministry to children. Was there a particular reason why?
There was. My own reason is that that has been part of my life for 40 years, and I am 75. I trust the Lord will give me more time, but I wanted to preach that sermon while I still could. I have no idea what the future holds—that’s why I preached it.
It felt like a confluence: HarvestKidz opened the praise and worship session, Pastor Elizabeth Pescadero shared about her mission to the UPGs, in particular the children, and then your message. It just came together so beautifully.
You know, there’s that area behind the white picket fence where parents can bring children (CHC’s Parents’ Corner). That was the most wonderful thing I saw, it’s just wonderful. And I loved the part of the service with those who are challenged (JAMs performance). They are part of the Kingdom; the Kingdom of God is for them. We just don’t minister to them, they are participants. That was absolutely great. It doesn’t get any better than this.
The Lord keeps track. We were just saying that when we get to heaven, we’d just go to the back of the line, because the people who are doing what Pastor Elizabeth’s doing—she’d be in front of us! These are people who give their life in the most difficult circumstances.
Pastor Elizabeth Pescadero sharing at the service on 4 Nov
If someone who did not make it to the Summit asked what happened, how would you sum it up?
I think that question would be better asked of people who were at the Summit and they tell you what they received, rather than me saying what I hoped they received. But I do think it was it was great a day for the scholars and it took place in a local church. That was one of our main points to start with, where theology is put at service of the local church. And theologians are valued. That’s not often how it is.
I have always I live in two worlds. I’ve always had a ministry world where I’m doing what pastors do or what missionaries do, and I have an academic world, and they don’t come together very often. And they should always be together—and it’s not the scholars’ fault for the most part. So, that this is in a local church, we just pray it’ll spread. That’s one of the things that we’re praying for and I trust that will come.
You paid tribute to Prof Murray Dempster on stage during service—he worked on the first book with you and Prof Byron. But I understand he’s quite unwell now.
Murray was a person who exuded joy. He was always the best mind in the room—always. But he wouldn’t ever think that— just joy came out of him. When Murray’s gone, people say we miss Murray’s joy, he would be so excited. I’m disappointed for the people that they don’t get an opportunity to meet this person who has made such a difference in my life. He is full of joy, and he’s the best Christian I’ve ever worked with, full of the fruits of the Spirit and the best mind—all these scholars know that Murray’s among the best of all, ever. They all know that. He has left his mark. *
Prof Murray Dempster (left), one of the three editors of The Globalisation of Pentecostalism: A Religion Made To Travel
What happens after the Summit?
Byron Klaus and I are staying for three days after the Summit for the “what’s next” with Pastor Kong, and just see where the Lord wants to take it. I know Byron’s and my goal is to open doors and facilitate. We’ve had our day in the sun, so to speak, so that’s not part of our agenda. But the Lord is opening an opportunity—this is like a third career for me, instead of sitting at home in a big red chair (laughs). We’ll see where the Lord takes it. But I sense it in my spirit—I can be pretty creative, it’ll just come (grins).
We’re so blessed to have you! I look forward to the product of the Summit!
It’s been a huge success, it’s everything we hoped for. Which I had no doubt it would be—we put the people together and at this church that is alive. How can you miss?
* EDITOR’S NOTE: Professor Murray W Dempster passed away in Dec 2023, a month after our interview with Prof Doug. Here is Vanguard University’s tribute to him.
